Episode Notes
Senior Advisor Tara Hess and Community Education Specialist Andie Springirth delve into the topic of goat resident safety. Why goat resident safety specifically? While sanctuary caregivers need to make sure residents of all species are safe, ensuring the safety of goats, in particular, can be a bit tricky, especially if you aren’t aware of the unique safety challenges they face. In addition to discussing some of the unique characteristics, capabilities, and tendencies that could land goats in a dangerous situation, we highlight five specific areas caregivers can focus on to mitigate some of the most serious risks for their goat residents.
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This Episode’s Referenced Open Sanctuary Project Resources:
Goat Resident Safety Part One: General Safety Considerations
Goat Resident Safety Part Two: Hay Feeder Safety
Observation: An Important Caregiving Tool
Fundamentals Of An Effective Animal Sanctuary Tour Program
Episode Transcript (Auto-GeneratedThe following content was transcribed through an automated process and may contain transcription errors or misspellings.)
Tara Hess: Welcome to another episode of the Open Sanctuary Podcast. I’m Tara Hess, the senior advisor at the Open Sanctuary Project, and I’m here with my friend and colleague Andie Springirth, our community education specialist. Today we’re here to talk about goat safety. Now, you may be asking, why goat safety specifically? Of course, sanctuary caregivers need to make sure residents of all species are safe, but ensuring the safety of goats in particular can often be a little bit challenging. And this is especially true if folks aren’t aware of some of the unique safety challenges they face. Because of this, we released a two-part written series on this very topic earlier this year. And that series highlights some of the unique characteristics, capabilities, and tendencies of goats that could get them into a dangerous situation and provides an extensive list of action steps caregivers can take to help eliminate or mitigate those risks. Now, Andie and I both spent many years working at large farmed animal sanctuariesAnimal sanctuaries that primarily care for rescued animals that were farmed by humans., and so we know that caregivers often have a ton on their plate, and that time and other resources are often in short supply. While we hope folks will check out our written goat safety series and implement as many actionable steps as possible, we know it can be overwhelming to be presented with a laundry list of things to do on top of everything else you already have to do. And so today, we want to highlight five important areas caregivers can focus on to help mitigate some of the most serious risks for the goat residents. While these risks are real and can even be life-threatening for the purposes of this particular platform, we won’t be going into a distressing amount of detail. Nevertheless, we hope you take these tips into thoughtful consideration to provide your residents with as much protection as possible. So, I guess we’ll just dive right in to the first focus area, which I think is one of the most important things that you can do, which is to evaluate your hay feeders for safety risks. And when you’re picking out a hay feeder or building a hay feeder or however you come about getting one, that you’re really, really thinking about the safety for your specific residents. And I feel like of the ones of the areas we’re going to talk about, this is the one that I feel like we can offer the least specific recommendations in terms of, “Here’s exactly what you should do,” because there are just so many variables that are going to impact how your specific residents interact with this specific hay feeder. And there are different designs, and even similar designs could have slight differences in terms of sizing, like the spacing of bars, or the materials are made out of, and how you position them in the space can have an impact. So for this one, we’re going to highlight a few recommendations that are fairly universal, but I really encourage folks to check out again that written series. The second half is just about feeder safety and about the different hazards you need to be aware of so that you can look at your setup and be like, “Is this a potential issue?” So the two things that I want to highlight here is that even though I’m sure there are folks listening who have maybe used some of these types of feeders without having an issue, as a general rule, we recommend that folks avoid using haynets and hay bags because of the potentially very, very serious risks that they pose. And we also recommend that folks avoid hay racks that have tapered vertical bars because of the risk of head entrapment. And again, if folks look at the resource, they’ll be able to see all the details about the different types of risks, because these aren’t the only risks that goat residents face. But I hope that that resource will equip folks with a framework to evaluate hay feeders because I don’t know about you, Andie, but there I’ve had my own close calls where I’ve come into a goat living spaceThe indoor or outdoor area where an animal resident lives, eats, and rests. and found somebody in a precarious situation with a hay feeder that had not caused issues ever before. And I’ve also just heard so many stories. So I feel like this is just such an important one.
Andie Springirth: Yeah. I think one other thing I would mention, you know, in addition to the different types of hay feeders that you’ve already included here, is to be mindful of the various safety risks that come with the large stock tank feeders. Tara, you speak very eloquently and write very eloquently in this resource series on the risks that come with those. So in my experience, in the sanctuary world, you know, especially in the beginning years, I would come into a goat space, goat living space, and we would have the stock tanks filled with hay. And inevitably, there was at least one goat resident who was either inside the stock tank taking a nap while chewing on a snack there, or trying to get into it. And in addition to the safety risks that come with, like, trying to get in there, jumping in there, and possibly having their foot or leg trapped in there, the other thing that I didn’t consider at that time early on was the safety risks that come with when the goats defecate or urinate inside of the stock tanks and how that can kind of just sit there on the bottom. And as caregivers, if we’re not clearing those out as regularly as you might need to in that particular circumstance, it’s just kind of sitting there. And so those residents are potentially sitting on not just poop and pee, but also an increased risk of disease transmission because of being in that proximity with someone else’s feces and urine. So, I just wanted to include that there for folks who might be like, “Oh, well, we don’t have things that are something that’s hanging like a hay bag or the racks that are mounted.” There are risks with a lot of these different things. And I think Tara does a really great job explaining the varying risks and also just emphasizing that it’s important to weigh these things individually. Everyone’s space is unique, and everyone’s residents are all unique.
Tara Hess: Yeah, I’m glad, I’m glad you raised that point because if anyone is listening to this and they don’t get to the written resource, I feel like with hay feeders especially, it can get easy to be like, “Well then what the heck is safe?” Like you’re saying that this isn’t safe and this is. So I hope that what we did was sort of highlight some of the risks and offer some suggestions for how you can mitigate these risks because it would be amazing if we could say, “Here’s the feeder that poses no risks and is totally safe for every single goat in every single situation.” But that’s just, if someone knows that, then send me an email. But like, I don’t think that that exists. And so, like for me personally, after seeing a close call with like a wall-mounted feeder that had those vertical tapered bars, it’s like, “Well, I mean then we’ll use a stock tank because like you can’t get your head caught in that.” Like it’s just comparatively speaking, it seems safe. But of course, there are things that then you have to consider and you have to weigh again what is going to be the best case scenario for your residents and keeping in mind that your first inclination or the first decision you make might need adjusting. I have worked with goats for long enough to know that I could never say, like, “I’ve listed all the possibilities,” because goats will find a way to surprise us and do something, you know. So observing, watching, seeing what’s going on, how they’re using the feeders, and then adjusting to make it work for your space. And again, we do mention this in the resource, but and to make sure it continues to work because as residents age or grow or you add in different residents, things that worked before—and this isn’t just hay feeders, this is so many things—things that worked before might not work as well as they once did. And so, it’s just really, I think, keeping these risks in your mind so that you’re, you know, you’re more likely to sort of hone in on the thing that’s a red flag. Like, “Ooh, I didn’t realize they could get their leg into this part. Could they get their leg trapped? Do we need to make an adjustment?” So, yeah, I could talk about hay feeders all day without offering very concrete advice, but…
Andie Springirth: Well, so this is not related to goats specifically, but I do just want to offer like a side anecdote to this regarding hay feeders. I live with alpacas and even though they are very unique and distinct from goats, your resource actually helped me improve our feeding system in our barn because we had a bag. We had a hanging bag that, you know, it’s with the checkered holes in it, you know, for them to pull out. And as I was evaluating your resource and reading through it pretty thoroughly, I kept thinking about, “Is this really optimal for the alpacas?” And then once I started thinking about it from a safety standpoint, you know, one of our alpacas, his name is Goldie, what he does when he drinks water, even though they’re elevated enough, he can very easily just drink without having to do anything. He actually lifts one or both of his feet up and rests them on the water bucket. And so when I was watching that behavior and thinking about the resource that you had published, I was like, you know, that bag that’s hanging there also comes with an increased risk for someone like Goldie, who’s an older guy, not as agile as he once was, and could risk even leg or foot entrapment, as you mentioned, too. And so we swapped it out for a different type of feeder that’s freestanding, and it’s, it’s not a stock tank, but it’s a shallow…
Tara Hess: It’s like a trough, right? Sort of.
Andie Springirth: Yes, it’s like a shallow trough with four legs. But another wonderful adjustment that we made with that feeder as well, because of the guidelines and the tips and the risks that you mentioned in the resource, was we actually mounted that to the wall because we, we also talk about the potential for things to tip over and thinking about that from, you know, a risk standpoint, especially with these older guys who have, you know, are beginning to have arthritis and things like that. Yeah. So, there’s just, you know, these adjustments that we continue to make, and I mean, we’re doing our best and we’re modifying as we go and improving as we go and circumstances change, right? So, anyway, so thank you for that because it’s very helpful. It, you know.
Tara Hess: Thanks for sharing.
Andie Springirth: Yes. Yes. In my particular situation right now, but I guess it’s a good time to go into another area that’s really important to focus on in terms of mitigating the highest, the most serious risks with goats specifically, and that’s to eliminate elevated risks. So, that could include things like hay feeders, of course, but Tara does a really good job at explaining this, you know, expanding this category to include not just potentially hay feeders, but avoiding, you know, avoiding using anything that hangs from a chain or a rope. So, this might include some kind of nutritional enrichment setup, or take steps, of course, to eliminate the possibility of a resident becoming tangled in this, to store halters in a space that is separate from your resident’s living space and make sure they cannot reach them. And importantly, to make sure that any electrical cords that may be in their living space are out of reach. And that’s not just the cords specifically. That’s not just to prevent potential entanglement or entrapment, but it’s also because goats might chew on those cords, which also poses a significant safety risk. And you know, while we’re talking about these elevated risks, these, these can also include things like other things that may enter into the space unintentionally, like toxic plants that might be growing nearby. And you may have a storage loft or a shelving unit that’s kind of nearby. And goats having this amazing ability really to stand up on their hind legs and reach for things. What you might see as beyond their reach for, you know, an agile or very excited goat may become very reachable actually for them. So, so yeah, so just eliminating as many elevated risks as you can. And there’s one point I want to add in here that you talk about, you know, in more detail in the resource. Some of our listeners who might be new to goat care might be thinking, “Why is this such a unique safety risk to goats?” And as I just mentioned, it’s because goats, unlike animals like sheep, they are browsers. And Tara talks again in detail about this in the written resource. And so they have this inclination to stand on their hind legs to reach browse, things like twigs and leaves and vines and brambles and shrubs and trees. But it’s not a matter of if this is going to happen, like if they’re going to reach for something, it’s a matter of when the goats are going to reach for something, right? They’re going to, they’re going to do it. We just want to really emphasize the importance of eliminating as many elevated risks as you can because they’re going to go for it. They’re definitely…
Tara Hess: Yeah, they’re definitely going to go for it. And like you said, unlike, like if you have a sheep and a goat who are the exact same size, and let’s assume they’re like a healthy goat, not, you know, somebody who’s super arthritic and old, the spaces they can reach are going to be very different than your typical sheep. But even if you then compare them to a cowWhile "cow" can be defined to refer exclusively to female cattle, at The Open Sanctuary Project we refer to domesticated cattle of all ages and sexes as "cows.", like if you say like, “Oh, well, you know, Bob goat stands up on his hind legs and he’s reaching about as high as like Bella cow or whatever.” It, like, yes, they’re exposed to some of the same hazards, but because goats can’t stand like that forever, a situation can turn urgent so quick. Like for sure if a cow gets caught in something and you don’t catch it soon enough, or if there’s struggle, like there are lots of things that can happen. But that factor of that they can stand on their hind legs, but that they’re not humans, they don’t just walk around on their hind legs and have, you know, can just wait around all day. That really changes things for them. And I think because sheep and goats are so often, they, there’s so much overlap, I think, in terms of their care. Of course, they’re different species and they have lots of unique needs, but because there is a lot of legit overlap in terms of caring for them in like a sanctuary space, I think sometimes that gets lost, especially if somebody focuses on sheep and then expands to goats or something like that. They might be surprised at just all the different, you know, it’s different.
Andie Springirth: Yeah, they are. Yeah. Different capabilities, too. Yeah. Mhm.
Tara Hess: And so, speaking of different capabilities, the next area that we think folks should really focus on is the living space itself and the ability of the living space to keep residents contained, right? I think this is one at the sanctuary I worked at, we had walkie-talkies that we communicated on. And if somebody started to radio that somebody was out, like if I didn’t know any of the residents’ names and just got dropped at a sanctuary and I heard, you know, “So and so is loose,” my first guess—and of course chickens get out, pigs get out, other animals get out—but if I had to bet, if someone was like, “You have to make a bet on this,” I would bet goat, because there are just so many ways that they get out that I think folks might not realize. So, when you’re thinking about how your residents might get out of a living space, you should keep in mind that goats, and of course, we’re generalizing here, everybody’s an individual, but as a species in captivity, goats can be super rough on fencing. And so, that fencing might be more likely to damage, even if you have the most robust fencing. Like, over time, a fence can only take so much headbutting or so much, like, standing up on it to reach, you know, apple leaves or something like that. So, goats can get out through breaches in the fence. If they’re putting their legs up on the fence and it doesn’t have a top board, they could crush it over time and then just walk over it. If you change the setup of their living space, or if they change the setup of their living space—like if they have different climbing structures for enrichment that they can move around—if they push that thing near the fence or some other barrier, now they’ve got like the perfect launch pad to jump out. Goats, and they’re not the only ones, but goats have been known to open latches. So, if they can reach a latch, you know, while standing on their hind legs, maybe you’re like, “Oh, this is out of their reach.” So, there are just so many ways that they can get out of their living space, and this poses a safety risk because, first of all, the attempt to get out could injure them if they’re going through broken fencing, if they’re going under or over fencing. But beyond that, you know, we design these living spaces with such care to make sure they’re appropriate for the species who are living in them and that they’re keeping hazards out and they’re keeping them protected from predators and other risks. So, if you have residents, regardless of their species, loose, you have no control over that environment. And depending on where you are and what’s around, they’re going to be exposed to different degrees of risk. So, really, the goal should be to keep them inside their living space and make sure that living space is appropriate for them. But really, again, just like with feeders, like looking around and thinking about all the potential ways that residents can get out and really checking that fencing. I remember when I was a fairly new caregiverSomeone who provides daily care, specifically for animal residents at an animal sanctuary, shelter, or rescue., I lived on-site and I lived actually quite far away from this one particular goat structure and I looked out my window and the entire herd of goats was there in my front yard and I was just like, “What?” Like they had traveled the entire sanctuary, and like it’s funny, but there are so many things they could have gotten into. The road was right there. There was like grain storage, which we’re going to talk about later. But like we went up to figure out how they got out, thinking, “I mean, it’s the whole herd. So like clearly you left a gate open or something where then they all came out.” No, there was this breach in the fence that like if you didn’t look carefully, you wouldn’t even notice. And the size of that, I mean, every, and these were big goats. Every single goat fit through that breach. That didn’t just happen, you know, that didn’t, they didn’t bust through the entire fence today and all get out. Like, that’s something that had been brewing and we just didn’t, you know, we didn’t notice. And so, really, and again, there’s so much to do. I get that it’s like you don’t have time to walk every single fence line every day, but really coming up with a plan that works for your sanctuary, for your team, or if it’s just you, to just really keep an eye on that fencing so that you can address things as they’re coming up before you have this emergency that now you have to deal with this giant breach which is harder to patch, to do an emergency patch on than something smaller, because yeah, they will, everybody got out. It was, it was shocking. And there were guests on the property and there was, and that wasn’t a group of goats that guests went into for very specific reasons because some of the goats… Yeah. So there’s another risk, right? Yeah.
Andie Springirth: Heidi who hates children is loose.
Tara Hess: Yes. Right. And it’s like their face. Yes. Exactly.
Andie Springirth: That’s right. Yeah. Absolutely. And I, I do want to just reiterate what you said a few minutes ago that as I chuckle here, I also am fully aware that, you know, these situations that might seem silly or funny when we first see them, like you said, could quickly turn into an emergency. Something that could be very dangerous for the goats and others,
Tara Hess: Right? Yeah. It’s like in hindsight once you know everything’s okay, you can laugh because otherwise you might like cry or be like, “Everything’s too hard.” But yeah, we don’t want to make light of the risks because the risks are real. But I think for sure my coping mechanism is like, “I have to just like laugh a little or I’m going to not be able to function,” right? It’ll be too much.
Andie Springirth: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And to your point too about the fencing, I mean it could be something like rotten wood, as you mention in your resource, which if you’re not doing regular observation for maintenance needs, like that’s something that might look fine until the moment, like you don’t even see it thinning or, you know, or the breaking point, and that thing, it all it takes is one more headbutt. One more headbutt to their, uh, their buddy or not-so-buddy in the pasture next door. So, yeah, those are, those are really important things to consider in terms of mitigating risks to goats specifically. So, yeah, another, another point we want to, we want to make and we want to encourage folks to do is to be mindful of what is allowed to come into goat living spaces and to take very serious care to keep things out of the resident’s reach that they should not be able to reach. Some of the examples, you know, of these of these things other than the obvious that you might be thinking of right away, include health checkThe Open Sanctuary Project uses the term "health check" to describe health evaluations performed by caregivers who are not licensed veterinarians. While regular health checks are an important part of animal care, they are not meant to be a replacement for a physical exam performed by a licensed veterinarian. kits. Sometimes we go in with medication that it might be inside as something that’s tasty for, you know, the particular resident that it’s intended for, to entice them into taking their medication. But obviously we all know that medication varies. I mean, it could be just that specific medication in of itself could be harmful if it’s being consumed by someone who doesn’t need it, or the dosage of it could be incredibly harmful if it was meant for a very large goat and a very small, very small, agile goat, you know, was able to reach it. There’s, there’s just a ton of things. So, the health check kits is a big one. Exam gloves, which would probably be included in the health check kits, but just be mindful of those things. You know, sometimes we go in with our gloves on and we take them off and stuff them in our pocket on our way out, and maybe they fall in or, you know, fall onto the ground. Be mindful that whatever we take in that does not belong in there permanently, we need to also take out after we’re done. So, other things include what potential guests might bring in if they’re visiting and allowed either directly outside of the living space, or close enough, you know, that makes their items within reach of the goats. Or of course, if potential guests are allowed inside of the goat’s living space. In terms of your programming, your visitor programming, I would recommend having a very strict policy about not allowing guests to bring in any food into resident living spaces ever. Even if someone is like, “But this is, this is healthy for them.” Like, just, you know, I, I just to eliminate all potential risks, I would recommend a very strict policy on that. And anything else like jewelry. I mean, this goes not just for goats, but for a lot of species. I’m sure we’ve all seen, you know, various animals try to chew on dangling necklaces, you know, and earrings or belts. But yeah, Tara, do you have any, is anything else coming to mind in terms of what might come into a space that does not belong long-term that could be risky?
Tara Hess: Maybe not exactly what would come into the space, but just thinking of guests. You know, I think with your caregivers, you want to really obviously have robust training and remind them of some of the things goats can get into because I’ve had, I’ve had goats take things out of my pocket that wasn’t like fully in there. And in the winter when you’ve got 75 layers on, sometimes you don’t even notice that that’s happening. So, I’ve had to retrieve—and again, these ended fine, but they might not have. You know, I’ve had to retrieve a Ziploc bag that had somebody’s eye drops in it from a goat who took that Ziploc bag of gloves from a health check kit. Yeah. Like they just, if they can reach it. One year the vet came out, well the vet came out every year to do rabies vaccines, but one year in particular, one of the goats ripped all the pages off. She had been keeping track and then proceeded to eat, you know, very quickly like munched them down. Yeah. The whole, and so the whole list was gone. But it’s just they can do things so quickly. But thinking about guests, you have more experience with guests than me. But I feel like, and this is good, you know, guests come and they are moved by the connection they’re having with residents if, you know, residents are coming up to them or whatever. And some, I think sometimes—I don’t know if you found this, but it’s like you don’t necessarily want to interrupt a moment somebody’s having, but sometimes folks don’t recognize what’s actually happening. So like, “Oh, it’s so cute that this goat has put his front legs up on me and is like, ‘Oh, he’s nuzzling me.'” He’s not nuzzling you. He’s chewing your necklace, you know? And like making sure that education staff or whoever it is that accompanies guests—which again, we would really encourage that when guests are entering resident living spaces, they’re accompanied by somebody who is trained who can facilitate a safe interaction and make sure the residents are safe and comfortable. But having somebody who can be like, you know, gently, “Nope, like, let’s get him down.” Like, “This actually, here’s what was going on. Here’s how you can interact with him in a way that’s going to be maybe safer for everyone,” because I’ve just seen with different species too, so many things where the visitor doesn’t have the context and so they love it because they’re getting this, you know, time with an individual that they feel a connection with or a species they haven’t met before, but really there’s something going on where it’s like, “That’s not great.”
Andie Springirth: Yeah. Yes. They lack the, you know, more species and individual specific understanding of behavior, which is, I mean, that’s something that comes with experience and research and time. So that’s a really good point. I also just want to add before we move on is gum. A lot of people, you know, I, I know a lot of visitors who, or even water bottles, like just, you know, I’m not even talking about, like, I’ve seen a lot of folks, I’ve done this myself in the past too, not in the sanctuary space, but a lot of people will put like their plastic water bottles in their back pocket, or like their packet of gum in their back pocket and think, “Well, it’s not like that.” But let me tell you that upper lip that goat, and you know, again, they might think, “Oh, they’re giving me a little nibble. That’s so cute.” And then out comes your entire pack of, you know, Bubble Yum or whatever, you know, or the plastic water bottle and off pops the cap, and that’s, that’s a danger. And it’s not to again, like we don’t, I don’t want to stereotype goats as like they’ll eat anything because we hear that all the time, but, you know, which I’m not trying to, you know, reproduce here necessarily. It’s just that they’re intrigued by certain things and certain smells. And these are in a sanctuary space. Those things are novel to them. So, it also might just be out of curiosity to check those things out. So,
Tara Hess: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a great point because, yeah, we definitely don’t want to reinforce that, like, goats eat everything. Yeah. It’s that they get into things and they chew things, and it’s our job to protect them from the things that they shouldn’t get into. Which brings us to the last point we wanted to highlight, which is to prevent unintended access to grains, concentrates, pellets, like any sort of food. But we’re mostly focused on like bagged food that you would get at like a feed store or something like that. Of course, this applies to other species as well where you don’t want them just getting into like your grain storage area and eating as much as they want. But because of some of the other things we talked about with goats, sometimes they’re a little bit more likely to get into these things than others. So if you store grain or concentrates or whatever in the same building—like I would never store it in your resident’s living space where there’s not something that separates them. But let’s say you have a structure that houses their living space and then has a little storage area. Yeah. Or something like that where you keep halters and other things. If you store grain in there, you want to really make sure it’s like there’s no way that your residents are going to get to it. So again, like can they, can they open the latch and get in? Can the latch break? Maybe you can have like a double latching system to have a backup plan. Make sure the bins are properly sealed, but don’t rely on the seal of the bin to keep residents out because goats will find a way. Like they just will.
Andie Springirth: I feel like that’s the title of this: “Goats Will Find a Way.” Goats will. Yes,
Tara Hess: Exactly. They will find a way and they can suffer really serious catastrophic gastrointestinal issues if they eat too much grain. And it’s really, I’ve had to—I don’t know if you’ve had to do this, but I have on multiple occasions had to get goats away from grain that they got into, and it is hard, and it’s even if they’re little, even if you think they’re like, “Oh, he’s 17 and he’s, you know, so slow,” right? Like it is, it is hard to do. And so you want to just avoid that from even happening in the first place. So again, think about the grain or whatever that’s stored maybe in proximity to your residents. But I would also think about if you have a main storage area where you have just like all your grain supply. I would make sure that if your residents get out—which again, you’re going to try to make sure that they don’t—but have a backup that if they do, the chances of them getting into that are slim because maybe you have a policy where the door is always closed and there’s a latch up high or some sort of latch that goats are less likely to be able to open, because again, if they, if they get into it and even if you catch it right away, it’s hard to stop them right away. And if you don’t catch it right away, you can have a really, really serious health emergency on your hand.
Andie Springirth: I also just want to say too, like even if you have separate spaces, you know, as you mentioned in the beginning, just make, you know, if their living space has anything that they can jump up on that would allow them to then jump over their fence or that gate, you know, or into the area where the grain is stored. The possibility is there as long as they have something to jump up onto, too. I was thinking about some, some like more general takeaways to this from, you know, from this series and as well as this podcast. And one thing that just kept coming back to me was, you know, this reflection question I think would be helpful for listeners as you’re, you know, maybe you’re listening while you’re working right now, but it’s just, you know, as you walk around your space, just think about what modifications can you make to your space given these unique challenges. And that’s just something to, you know, it’s just a little question that could just sit there in that part of your brain. It goes along with what areas can be improved upon as you’re walking the sanctuary and walking through spaces and just checking. And again, I know Tara mentioned, you know, importantly that we, we have an unbelievably long list, daily list of things to do every day. But if those can just live up there, regardless of the species or the space, but just continuing to think about as you go in there, check the residents of course in implementing observation in that way, but also regularly scanning their space for these types of risks and also, you know, building in specific times to do a more thorough examination of that. But as we mentioned, some stuff might be fine one day, you know, when we do that thorough exam, and then that evening there’s like an intense headbutting fight breaks out between the two pastures or whatever, and suddenly that wood or that fencing that was sturdy enough seemingly so now becomes not. So, I, I think it really just comes down to making regular and thorough observation a part of your routine, of your daily routine.
Tara Hess: Yeah, exactly. And I think if you can catch things before they’re a problem, you know, then you can maybe think about like, when do I have time to do this in the coming days? And instead of having this situation where, you know, the fence just cannot contain them right now or residents are already out or somebody’s already ingested something they shouldn’t and trying to do like damage control, trying to be proactive. And again, I, I think you really emphasized the main point of observation because I think once you sort of incorporate that, like, “Oh, this is, this is a thing,” that again applies to all species, but for goats, I should really have this at the forefront of my mind or have it just, it’s almost like a filter through which you can then look at different things that are going on, you know? So, you put a new enrichment thing in your resident’s space and it’s not anywhere near a fence. Maybe it’s inside, but you see that they’re pushing it around. Then you’re maybe like, “Oh, okay. So, now I don’t have control over where this is, and I probably do need to have control over where this is.” Like, “Is there a way I can modify it, or is there a different enrichment item that would offer similar benefits but not carry some of the same risks?” And again, it’s a balance because you could easily, I know I could easily sort of spiral into like, “Everything’s like a death trap,” and, you know, “Everything’s awful,” you know. So, it’s, it’s finding that balance of like what is the realistic risk, and of course different risks come in different degrees, right? And they change. So, just really trying to focus on some of the biggest risks, some of the things that you’re like, “Oh my gosh, if I wasn’t here the minute this happens, that’s going to be really bad.” And this is something that is likely to happen or very possible to happen. And again, just trying to identify things like, “Oh, if we did this, this might, you know, eliminate this risk a little more,” or something like that.
Andie Springirth: Yeah. And if I may, if I may, as we’re talking about this from my education brain here. In addition to observation being a useful tool, also thinking about this from an empathy standpoint. What I mean by that is putting yourselves in the, let’s say, the hooves of one, you know, your goat residents. So let’s say you, you know, as you’re evaluating their space and you, you know, the herd and the residents, you know, you think about, let’s say you added that enrichment structure into their living space and you’re like, “Okay, yeah, you know, it might be even useful to think about it from specifically, I’m just giving a hypothetical here, Daisy. Like, what if I were Daisy?” You know, as their caregiver, you’re going to also know some of their tendencies and, you know, their unique personalities and their unique capabilities. And you might think, “Oh, Daisy’s really strong. She might, you know, as you mentioned earlier, she might be more inclined to, she might have the ability to actually push this closer to the fence,” or whatnot. So, so that might be, that might be helpful for some of, some of the folks out there as well is just thinking about this from this empathy in terms of role taking, you know, this perspective-taking exercise and point of view. Yeah. When you’re, when you’re thinking about living spaces and potential risks. Once again, thank you so much for tuning into this episode. We hope what we’ve shared today has been helpful, in particular in terms of eliminating or at least mitigating some of the most serious risks that face goats in particular as a species. If you’re interested in learning more, please do check out the two-part written series on this topic that Tara published. One is more generally about the unique challenges that goats can face because of their capabilities and tendencies. And another one is more specifically geared towards the unique risks that come with hay feeders and how to eliminate or mitigate the risks that come with those, too. Please also feel free to leave us a review and share our podcast, or reach out if you have thoughts, comments, or questions. We love hearing from you. You can reach out to us via our contact page at our website at www.opensanctuary.org. And just as one final little note, we will include in our show notes links to this two-part written series, as well as any other relevant resources that you may be interested in. But we hope you all have a wonderful rest of your day. Thanks again for tuning in and we look forward to podcasting with you next time. Bye-bye.
