Episode Notes
In these two episodes of The Open Sanctuary Podcast, NonprofitA non-governmental organization whose primary purpose is something other than selling goods or services. Specialist Julia and Senior Advisor Tara talk turkeysUnless explicitly mentioned, we are referring to domesticated turkey breeds, not wild turkeys, who may have unique needs not covered by this resource.! In the first part of our TurkeyUnless explicitly mentioned, we are referring to domesticated turkey breeds, not wild turkeys, who may have unique needs not covered by this resource. series, we discuss how domesticatedAdapted over time (as by selective breeding) from a wild or natural state to life in close association with and to the benefit of humans turkeys got here and how that influences their care in sanctuary. In the second episode, they talk about the considerations sanctuaries and rescues should keep in mind when welcoming a new turkey resident to ensure all their needs are met!
These Episodes Referenced Open Sanctuary Project Resources:
- Gobble Greetings: New Turkey Arrival Guide | The Open Sanctuary Project
- Creating A Good Home For Turkeys | The Open Sanctuary Project
- Domesticated Turkeys: How We Got Here | The Open Sanctuary Project
- How to Conduct a Turkey Health Check | The Open Sanctuary Project
- Predator-Proofing For Bird Residents At Your Sanctuary | The Open Sanctuary Project
- Establishing Safe And Effective Quarantine And Isolation Protocols For Your Animal Sanctuary | The Open Sanctuary Project
- Daily Observation For Turkey Health And Well-Being | The Open Sanctuary Project
- Electrical Safety Basics For Farmed Animal Sanctuaries | The Open Sanctuary Project
- Understanding Infectious Disease | The Open Sanctuary Project
Part 1 Transcript (Auto-GeneratedThe following content was transcribed through an automated process and may contain transcription errors or misspellings.)
Julia Magnus: Welcome to another episode of the Open Sanctuary Podcast. I’m Julia, the nonprofit specialist, and I’m chatting with Tara Hess, senior adviser for the Open Sanctuary Project, my dear friend, and also fellow bird nerd. At the Open Sanctuary Project, we do a lot of work exploring the ins and outs of providing compassionate lifelong care for farmed animalA species or specific breed of animal that is raised by humans for the use of their bodies or what comes from their bodies. residents. We cover all the major farmed animal species and even more. But for two episodes, we’re going to focus in on a particular species since we’re getting near to the time of year where a lot of people think about these special birds. Let’s talk turkeys. Now, out of sensitivity to our listeners, I would like to mention that in this episode, we have to mention some of the unfortunate consequences of domestication on turkeys as well as some unfortunate industry practices that might be upsetting. With that said, in our next episode, we’ll focus on the ways in which sanctuaries can take measures to address these issues with turkeys in order to ensure that they will live long and healthy, fulfilling lives. Tara, you recently updated our resource called Gobble Greetings: New Turkey Arrival Guide. This was part of some major work you’ve done in overhauling our fundamentals resources on various species and breaking them out into separate, more specific resources. Not long ago, Mckenzee, our executive directorThe individual formally in charge of final decision making at an organization, who sometimes works closely with the organization’s Board of Directors. Sometimes a Founder is an Executive Director, especially early in a nonprofit’s growth stages., and I talked a bit about how we update resources at the Open Sanctuary Project generally and specifically as it pertains to sanctuary sustainability, as we consider our work to be a living resource and we are constantly adjusting our information to ensure its accuracy, accessibility, and actionability for compassionate caregivers. Can you talk a little bit about that process when it came to our turkey resources?
Tara Hess: Yeah, this is part of an ongoing process we’ve been going through. This resource was originally written back in 2018. So that’s when we were just like a baby. Now when we write a new resource, there’s like a million hyperlinks where we’re like, “go here for more information” or whatever because we have such an extensive library at this point. But in 2018 when we were writing these resources—I say we, but you and I both know I’m talking about McKenzie who somehow was doing this all by herself. She didn’t have those other resources to direct folks to. And so sometimes just by the nature of not having that information anywhere else, this sort of adjacent information ended up in these other resources because they had to. So in the case of the new arrival guides, given that the species that we focus on are all social animals, after a new arrival has finished their quarantineThe policy or space in which an individual is separately housed away from others as a preventative measure to protect other residents from potentially contagious health conditions, such as in the case of new residents or residents who may have been exposed to certain diseases., in most cases you are going to introduce them to somebody else of their species. And so I just feel like McKenzie could have written a resource that’s like, “here’s how you take care of new turkeys and then introduce them to others, good luck,” with no explanation of how to do that. So instead, some of that information was in there and that made sense. But now that we have a more extensive library and are going through this updating process, it really made sense for a few reasons to pull certain information out. So like introductions, there is a link between a new arrival and conducting introductions, but that’s not the only time you might have to conduct an introduction. And so what we decided to do was to pull out the introduction information, go into more depth in species-specific resources about how to conduct introductions for turkeys, chickens, or whoever. And that just seemed to make more sense both from the perspective of people can only take in so much information at once and also making sure our information was easy to find. Because if I was looking for information on how to conduct a turkey introduction, but it had nothing to do with a new turkey arrival, I wouldn’t go there to find it. So anyways, that’s sort of the gist of it. There have been other changes with some of the arrival guides for other species that are sort of similar but don’t apply to turkeys as much. Like for some of the mammalian species that are more routinely vaccinated, which again there’s a link to a new arrival where if you have vaccine protocols they are going to need to be vaccinated, but that’s not the only time you vaccinate. So anyways, we just whittled them down to make the arrival guide more specific and then to be able to go into certain other topics that are related but not so tightly together. That’s been the process and we’re doing that with some other resources too. Just always trying to think about how to make this information as easy to take in and easy to find as possible.
Julia Magnus: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I think that these changes are going to be really helpful to anyone who’s searching for the specific kinds of information that you’re referencing. So, thank you so much for doing that because I know it’s like a whole thing to sort of untangle and go through and then nice up everything that you’re breaking out into its own thing.
Tara Hess: Yeah. And when you have—how many resources do we have? Is it like 800?
Julia Magnus: Oh my goodness. I know that we’re well over 800. We’re probably—I feel like we’re going to hit 900 this year.
Tara Hess: Yeah. So, it’s like anytime you change one resource, you have to be like, “Okay, where is this even mentioned anywhere else?” Because we also want to make sure our stuff is cohesive. And it’s not like, “Wait, over here they said this and here they say this.” So, it’s definitely a process.
Julia Magnus: Yeah. The work of updating never ends. So, thanks for explaining that. So, today I think we’re focusing in on the updated arrival guide in particular as there’s so much information in there that’s helpful to turkey caregivers and potentially first-time turkey caregivers as this season launches. So, we’re going to dive into some of the important considerations that sanctuaries need to make when welcoming a new turkey resident. But before we get into the nitty-gritty of intake protocols, Tara, can you give us some background on turkeys themselves? What should our listeners know about these incredible birds? Like for many species that we cover, we offer “How We Got Here” resources that offer this important background information on species because this can be really instructive to caregivers. So, we have one for turkeys that we’ll drop in the show notes, but I’d love it if you could give me some background.
Tara Hess: So, I think no matter what species you’re caring for, it’s essential to understand their natural behaviors and instincts and differences and also the impact that domestication has had on them so that you can use that to inform the way you care for them. So, first off—and I actually don’t know if I knew this before reading the “How We Got Here” and then updating it and doing more research—but there are actually only two species of turkeys. So, the first is the wild turkey of North America. That’s who I used to think of when I thought of a turkey. And then there’s the ocellated turkey from the Yucatan Peninsula. And so, the domesticated turkeys that we care for at farmed animal sanctuariesAnimal sanctuaries that primarily care for rescued animals that were farmed by humans. are actually a subspecies of the wild turkey of North America. So while there are critical differences between wild and domesticated turkeys, which I’m sure we’re going to talk about, domesticated turkeys still share many similarities with their wild ancestors. So I think learning about the behaviors and preferences of wild turkeys can help inform the way we care for domesticated turkeys when it comes to things like living spaces. For example, wild turkeys typically prefer a mix of woods and open spaces. They travel mostly on foot. They forage for plant matter, insects, and small animals on the ground. And they also nest on the ground. But they can fly. And they do fly short distances. And they perch up in the trees to try to protect themselves from a variety of predators at night.
Julia Magnus: All of that’s so interesting. And it’s definitely interesting to know that they’re not just ground dwellers. So, what do we know about their social lives?
Tara Hess: So, turkeys are highly social outside of mating season. The male turkeys usually live in all-male flocks and then the females will band together with their young and travel in circles with all females and the babies. And turkeys communicate not just through their body language—which I think I mean, I guess if you’ve been around turkeys, you also know they are vocal, but I feel like most people have seen a picture of a male turkey strutting. So, obviously, they communicate through their body language, but they also have dozens of distinct calls. So when caring for turkeys, it’s important to consider who they are as social animals and what their natural social arrangements would be while still making sure to create safe social groupings based on who domesticated turkeys are, which I know we’re going to talk about more later.
Julia Magnus: Yep, for sure. That makes a ton of sense. So speaking of domestication, how did we get from these wild birds to the domesticated turkeys that we often see today?
Tara Hess: Yes. So, that’s a critical part of the story. Current scientific evidence suggests that turkeys were domesticated at least twice. The first time was over 2,000 years ago by indigenous people in Mesoamerica. And then later, as early as 900 CE, they were domesticated by indigenous people of the southwest of the United States. And initially, they were primarily raised for their feathers, for ceremonial purposes, clothing, blankets, tools, things like that. And they held a significant spiritual importance versus being like, “turkeys are just raised so that their flesh can be consumed.” It actually wasn’t until the 1500s when conquistadors brought domesticated turkeys from Mexico back to Europe that they became a popular food animal and that new breeds started to emerge specifically with that intent of consuming their flesh.
Julia Magnus: The conquest: a gift that keeps on giving. So, this is where the differences in breeds start to really come into play, right?
Tara Hess: Yes. And I do want to just say in case there are any sticklers for language—the way we use language is important—but I should just acknowledge that the way we’re using the term breed is a bit loose because apparently, and I didn’t know this, but technically I guess they are varieties, but we made the decision to use the term breed intentionally. We talk about this in the resource. First of all, I think breed is a more recognizable term. There are also plenty of other sources that use the term breed the way we do. And also just from a personal standpoint, when I think of variety, I think of tomatoes. I don’t think about a living animal. So anyways, I just wanted to go on that little tangent because I’m going to keep saying breed. But these breeds were really shaped by consumer demand. And again, remember they came to be considered strictly a food animal. In the early 1930s, consumers started demanding more white flesh and they wanted a smaller bird that would fit in their refrigerator. And this is all gross to talk about, but I feel like it’s important to understand how we got here because turkeys’ bodies have been so manipulated. Just when you think about why this happened, it’s just sort of mindboggling to me. So, at this point in the early 1930s, domesticated turkeys still looked a lot more like their wild cousins. So, they had that same feather coloring. They didn’t have that large breast, maybe more like a heritage turkey that you might be familiar with, but still maybe closer to a wild turkey than even a heritage turkey. But anyways, the demand from consumers led to the creation of a turkey called the Beltsville Small White, which is a smaller bird with a larger breast and white feathers because, again, people didn’t want the pigmentation on the skin. And then because consumers wanted even more white flesh—like that wasn’t enough—the Beltsville Small was bred with other breeds to create the Broad-Breasted White turkey, which is the breed most commonly raised in North America. That’s the beautiful giant white bird that I think lots of people are familiar with. And so those Broad-Breasted Whites, there are Broad-Breasted Bronzes, there are also just so many hybrids that have that broad breast. All those birds are who we are referring to when we say large-breed turkey. So it’s basically like if they’re a domesticated turkey and they’re not a heritage breed, they have that broad breast, then we are referring to them as a large-breed turkey.
Julia Magnus: And it’s significant that we make this distinction, right? Because these large-breed turkeys can come with significant health challenges, can’t they?
Tara Hess: Yeah, unfortunately they can again because their bodies have been just so manipulated. So broad-breasted turkeys have been selectively bred to grow much larger and more rapidly than their wild cousins. They often reach three times the size of mature wild turkeys in just 4 months of life. And it’s not just size, but it’s also their body conformation. So, again, they have that unnaturally large breast, and that’s going to affect the way they bear weight because they can’t really be upright anymore because now they’re sort of top-heavy—top-heavy is maybe not the right word. They’re front-heavy. I don’t know how to explain it. They’re just not a balanced person anymore. And so, all this combined causes immense strain on their bodies and can lead to a host of health issues. So, they’re prone to obesity, heart issues, bumblefoot, arthritis, pressure sores—a lot of things that are related to being obese or just that unnatural body conformation. Their size and body conformation also prevent them from engaging in certain instinctual behaviors that they still have. So that includes flying and mating. So mature broad-breasted turkeys are too big and unbalanced to fly and even perching on low roosts can be difficult for them again because of that sort of balance issue. So when I started working at a farm sanctuary, I had been caring for broad-breasted turkeys, and there were no heritage turkeys at this point at the farm sanctuary when I was working there. So, I had experience caring for mature broad-breasted turkeys. I hadn’t cared for any poults. And I knew that they were stuck on the ground and I didn’t really think about how wild turkeys aren’t stuck on the ground. I just was used to them being heavy even on a diet on the ground. They might jump onto a low roost. Their feet were gnarly. They had all these issues again related to the way they’ve been selectively bred. And then right before the first Thanksgiving that I was at the farm sanctuary, we rescued poults. And so it was my first time caring for poults. And of course, at first they’re so little, they have to be inside and they have to be protected from everything. And I remember the first time they went outside, they weren’t teeny tiny anymore, but they were also still relatively small. They flew up into low branches of the tree that was in the yard. They flew up onto a fence line. And it was just wild to see not only that they could do that, but that was the first thing they wanted to do. And then what was heartbreaking was to watch as they grew how that became more and more difficult and one by one they couldn’t do it until none of them could do it. And that was just such a visceral thing for me. They want to do it. I realize I’m going to be projecting a lot, but the way I view it—which may not be how it really is because I can’t get in their minds—it just felt like in their mind and in their heart they are wild turkeys. In their mind and their heart, they’re wild birds, but we—and I use we, you know, humans—we’ve trapped them in these bodies that don’t accommodate who they truly are. And it’s just heartbreaking, but I feel like it’s an important thing for caregivers to understand because we can provide them with amazing lives and they can be very, very happy, but there is that one piece that we can never fix. I remember when we interviewed Alastair from Triangle Chicken Advocates, they said something similar along those lines about Cornishes. And I just remember the way they articulated it. It’s in our animal center design resource. You articulated exactly what I felt when I saw those turkeys wanted to and couldn’t fly.
Julia Magnus: Mhm. Yeah. The question of how domestication has impacted what they can and cannot do extends beyond just that one behavior of flying. You mentioned mating.
Tara Hess: Yeah. So that’s another one. And it goes without saying that sanctuaries shouldn’t allow their residents to breed. So I feel like if you don’t think about it too much, you could be like, “Who cares?” So, they can’t. But again, it’s like the flying. They haven’t lost the desire to do it. It’s not like if you put a male turkey in with a female turkey, he’s going to be like, “Well, it’s physically impossible for us to breed and therefore I won’t mount you.” He’s going to mount her, which could cause problems we’ll talk about in terms of safety. But it’s just wild to think that these birds exist solely through artificial insemination. Like, they could not exist without humans forcing them to exist. That’s wild to me.
Julia Magnus: And so you mentioned this that we can still provide them really great lives that they can enjoy even though they may not be able to live out the instincts that they have from their wild ancestors. So their physical abilities and body structures, as you mentioned, are different in ways that impact their care needs. What does that look like in terms of care?
Tara Hess: We can’t change the fact that they’ve been bred to have this unnaturally large breast. You’re not going to change the way their body is built. But they’re predisposed to serious weight gain and unhealthy weight gain. And keeping them at a lighter weight is going to help put less strain on their body because left to eat as much as they want, they’re going to overeat, they’re going to get way too big for their feet and their legs, which are already under a lot of strain. So diet—like giving them an appropriate diet and especially managing their portions—is just crucial to either prevent those issues that they’re prone to or, unfortunately, sometimes it’s less about preventing for their whole lives as much as it is about delaying the onset of certain things because arthritis is just so common. And then I mentioned that it’s physically impossible for broad-breasted males to mate with females because of that large breast—just it can’t happen. But they haven’t lost the ability to do that. And again, if you think about their size, even on a diet, they’re huge. Depending on the breed, they can be very big. And then if you think about the fact that these females, their bodies are already under strain from their weight and their breast, being mounted is not a benign thing. I feel like for some other species it’s like yes, things can get out of control, but mounting each other is sort of just part of how they interact with each other and is sometimes fine. You know, we watch to make sure it doesn’t get out of hand. But that’s really not the case with large-breed turkeys. So sometimes this means that you can’t house males and females together, especially during the spring. But in some cases, like I know some sanctuaries just are like, “we aren’t going to house them together because of the risk again if a male mounts a female because it could just cause such serious injury.”
Julia Magnus: I feel like this is why it’s so incredibly important to delve into the history of domestication of farmed animalsA species or specific breed of animal that is raised by humans for the use of their bodies or what comes from their bodies. when you’re caring for them and take a look at the ways that domestication over time has really impacted how we have to accommodate them and make sure that they’re getting what they need, the support that they need. And it’s also not just that, right? It’s not just “This is their bodies when they’re born.” There are industry practices that people engage in that also have serious implications for care ongoing, and turkeys really deal with a lot from that regard. So, do you want to mention those a little bit?
Tara Hess: Sure. Yeah. So, it’s not universal. It depends on where the turkey comes from and whatnot, but many domesticated turkeys come from large-scale industrial settings where practices like debeeking and detoing occur. And I should also add in desnooding. That just doesn’t have, I think, as much of a lasting impact that I’m aware of. But anyways, these are common practices. So debeeking, for folks who don’t know, involves cutting or searing off the sensitive tip of sometimes just the upper beak. Sometimes they do both the upper and lower beak. And this is done without anesthetics or analgesics. And this can make it difficult, especially right after the procedure—I say procedure, I should say mutilation. Right after, for the individual to eat because it’s such a sensitive spot full of nerve endings. So eating can be really difficult for them, and in some cases, I’ve cared for some turkeys where they had lasting impacts from debeeking because they were debeaked so short, like up close to the nareseither of the pair of openings of the nose or nasal cavity, or they were debeaked and then they developed this fleshy bulbous sensitive thing that grew out of it. So some individuals need modifications to the way they’re fed for life to deal with that. And then with detoing, it’s similar. And I think lots of industry things will call it nail trimming as if that’s what it is, because it’s not. They cut or sear off the toe tips. They’re not cutting the nail; they’re removing the whole toe tip. Not only is that painful and again done without anesthetics and analgesics, but that’s going to affect the way that they can bear weight because now they’re missing that first part of each toe. And then if you think about how they’re already bearing weight unnaturally because of that top-heavy breast and now their toes aren’t as long as they should be, it just creates a mess for their musculoskeletal system. It’s just terrible. And also you have to think—if you think about how birds interact with their environment, it’s with their feet and their beak, and you’re cutting parts of those off. It’s just so terrible.
Julia Magnus: I hadn’t really thought about the desnooding before, but to me it kind of reminds me of a practice that’s done in cockfighting where it’s called dubbing. And dubbing—it’s gross. They just cut off the combs and wattles of the birds. But it does actually have implications for their care ongoing because those body parts help them thermoregulate. So I wonder actually if desnooding has implications in that regard too.
Tara Hess: I do wonder because the snood is such a magical little body part that can do all sorts of things.
Julia Magnus: So yeah, I mean regardless, there’s just no justification for doing these kinds of practices to anyone. But yeah, I know that that was really a lot for our listeners to take in. And I know that we’re ending this episode on a bit of a grim note, but stay tuned because in our next episode, we’re going to talk about our new turkey arrival guide and the ways that from the start of the time they set foot at your sanctuary, you can do things to accommodate their needs, to take care of their trauma, to make sure that they live a life that they deserve. So, thank you for bearing with us for that. And stay tuned for next time, Tara.
Tara Hess: Thanks for going through that because I know that’s not really an easy thing to have to discuss. Yeah, I feel like I’m not a fun podcaster.
Julia Magnus: Well, it’s going to get more fun next time. We’ll actually get to talk about sanctuary life for turkeys, which will be much better. And so, stay tuned listeners. We’ll talk about that next time. If you’d like to learn more, please make sure to check out the show notes where we’ve dropped all the resources that we’ve referenced as well as some additional ones that you might find helpful. And of course, again, stay tuned for next week when we’re going to talk about sanctuary care for turkeys. If there are more subjects that we can cover that could be useful to you, please feel free to contact us via our contact us page at opensanctuary.org. We’re always happy to hear community feedback and welcome all suggestions for new resources. If you found this information valuable, please consider leaving a five-star review. Also, if you like what we do and would like to support our work, we warmly welcome donations. We’re a 501c3 organization, so your donations are tax-deductible and help us sustain our missionThe stated goals and activities of an organization. An animal sanctuary’s mission is commonly focused on objectives such as animal rescue and public advocacy. of providing freely accessible resources so that every sanctuary is a success story. Thank you for listening, for your support, and we look forward to talking more about turkeys much more cheerfully next time.
Part 2 Transcript (Auto-Generated)
Julia Magnus: Welcome to another episode of the Open Sanctuary Podcast. I’m Julia, the nonprofit specialist, and I’m talking with my friend and the senior adviser for the Open Sanctuary Project, Tara Hess. In our last episode, we talked about some of the updates that Tara has made in our turkeys’ fundamentals resources and the reasons why. We also talked about turkeys’ ancestry and how that impacts their desires, as well as the consequences of human domestication on these birds. I know that discussion got a little bit grim because we also had to mention some industry practices that can impact turkeys. This episode should be a little cheerier as here we will talk about a sanctuary life for turkeys, starting from what you can do to care for them when they first arrive at your sanctuary. So Tara Hess, when a new turkey arrives, what’s the very first thing a sanctuary needs to consider?
Tara Hess: The absolute first thing folks should do, especially in recent years because of the ongoing outbreaks, is to pay attention to the risk of HPAI in your area, which is going to change from time to time, and just consider your sanctuary’s risk. Also, consider where the turkey is coming from if they’re not coming from your region because there could be times when it’s simply not safe to bring a new turkey or any new bird to your sanctuary. So you might have to get creative with how you’re going to assist that individual without bringing them directly to your sanctuary initially.
Julia Magnus: Once you’ve assessed your HPAI risks, which again you should do anytime you’re considering a bird intake at this point, what’s next?
Tara Hess: Next you need to identify the specific needs of the incoming individual. And this goes beyond just being like, “Okay, they’re a turkey and here’s how you care for a turkey.” You need to consider their breed type. So, are they a large breedDomesticated animal breeds that have been selectively bred by humans to grow as large as possible, as quickly as possible, to the detriment of their health. turkey or a non-large breedA domesticated animal breed that has not been specifically engineered to grow as quickly as possible for the purpose of human consumption. In resources at The Open Sanctuary Project, "Heritage" breeds of turkeys, for instance, are "non-large breed", even if they are physically quite big. turkey, often referred to as heritage breed turkeys? Heritage breed turkeys typically have fewer health challenges. And again, I’m generalizing here because any individual can have health challenges. There are so many factors that are going to impact an individual’s health, but as a group, heritage breed turkeys aren’t predisposed to some of those same issues that we talked about in the last episode with large breed turkeys. So yeah, you really want to think about whether they are a large breed turkey or a non-large breed turkey. I feel like I spend a lot of time harping on the fact that large breed turkeys have very specific needs, but heritage breed turkeys do too.
I think it’s just that because large breed turkeys have been more manipulated and are further from their wild ancestors, and heritage breed turkeys are a little more closely related, I almost use them as the default and then large breed turkeys are different. But it’s important to just recognize that if you’re used to caring for large breed turkeys, heritage breed turkeys are different and they have their own unique care needs even if as a group they’re not predisposed to some of those same issues. An important point to make for heritage breed turkeys or non-large breed turkeys, as we usually call them, is that they have not lost that ability to fly to some degree. And so that was a fun surprise for me the first time I cared for heritage breed turkeys because they were living in a yard that wasn’t covered and I went to close them in at night. They weren’t perched in the low branches of a tree like the poults I was talking about; they were on the roof of a building. So it wasn’t just like, “Oh, this is so cute. Let me grab you from your branch and put you inside.” They’re on the roof and that’s not safe. That is not a safe way to protect themselves from predators in this scenario. They need to be inside. So again, you need to think about who they are and what they need because large breed turkeys and non-large breed turkeys have different needs. You know, this actually brings to mind a story—I think you’ve heard this story—Lucky the Wild Turkey in Chicago. We actually got messaged, my little rescue group, about a stray turkey who was wandering around a southern neighborhood of Chicago and I was looking at this turkey and I’m like, what kind of turkey is this? I am not sure. Could this be a wild turkey?
That is a thing to take into consideration if you get reports of a stray turkey because, at least around Chicago, there have been at least three times we’ve gotten calls about a purportedly stray turkey and that turkey has been a wild turkey. Tactically, we’re not allowed to catch those birds or handle those birds. So, if you get that kind of call, it’s helpful to make a call to your wildlife rehabber who is familiar with the bird to help you identify whether this turkey is a wild turkey or not. If they’re wild, they may still be in need of help, but that’s not a job for you. That’s a job for a wildlife rehabber.
Julia Magnus: I’m glad that you brought up this discussion of the types because as you mentioned, it’s not really a one-size-fits-all approach to turkeys. What are the other individual factors to consider here?
Tara Hess: It’s not just whether they are a large breed turkey, a non-large breed turkey, or in some cases a wild turkey. You also want to consider their age, their sex, and their health status. Any information you have about their history and their most recent living situation—all of that needs to be taken into consideration when thinking about the care that these individuals need. For example, turkey poults have very different needs than mature turkeys. And if you’re going to care for them, it’s important to understand the unique care they require so you can provide it. When it comes to poults—and this isn’t even just with poults, I feel like it’s baby birds in general—it’s not uncommon that you’re getting a call about this individual because they have a health issue. A lot of times that health issue is a leg issue that somebody sees and either doesn’t know how to manage or has no interest in managing. These are the things that are often called “splay leg” or “straddle leg” where one leg might be turned out weird or it splayed out to the side.
If you take a poult who has this “straddle leg,” contrary to what farmers might say or if you look at a hobby farm blog, those individuals require immediate veterinary evaluation to determine the cause of the issue and appropriate treatment. They don’t just need to be hobbled and splinted. Maybe they do, but you don’t just throw that on them. That’s sort of a tangent that I just wanted to add in there. And then also with poults, again, we mentioned this in the last episode, but you might take in a poult who’s recently been debeaked or detoed. That’s going to also factor into the unique care that they need. So you’re really thinking about all the unique things that are going on with this individual.
Julia Magnus: So what about considerations for older turkeys?
Tara Hess: If you’re someone who has been caring for turkeys and you have sort of these general care practices, like a standard diet for your turkey residents and a good idea of what appropriate living situations are for them, that might work for an older turkey, but it’s important to recognize that some older turkeys need something different. They might require a slight change to the standard diet you provide. They might require a living spaceThe indoor or outdoor area where an animal resident lives, eats, and rests. that is easier for them to navigate. There are all sorts of things that you want to consider if you’re thinking, “Oh, this is an elderly turkey.” Similarly, if you take in a turkey who is obese, which could happen, especially if you take in a mature large breed turkey depending on where they are coming from, you’ll want to consult with your veterinarian to figure out what the best diet is for them so that you can encourage healthy weight loss. Again, “healthy” is the key word. Yes, they need a restricted diet, but it’s not just about trying to get them to lose weight quickly. You really have to do it carefully. If you’re taking in an obese individual, you’d want to be looking for those health issues that I talked about before: bumble foot, arthritis, pressure sores, and those sorts of things. If they have them already because they’re overweight, take steps to prevent them from getting worse and also manage them. And if they don’t have them, you want to take steps to prevent them from developing, which could require changes to the type of living environment you might typically provide them.
Julia Magnus: You touched on this earlier, but it feels like it’s worth underlining. What happens if a new turkey arrives with injuries? What should be your first step?
Tara Hess: I wanted to pick up a megaphone: Call your vet! It’s a great question because I do feel like it’s common because there are certain health issues that are just common in certain species, but then there are certain health issues that sanctuaries see a lot because the story is common, if that makes sense. It’s like you have to think about what the reasons are that sanctuaries are getting calls about individuals: having someone who has a serious injury, a transport accident, someone who escaped, or a predator attack. There are all sorts of reasons why someone might have some sort of injury. I’d say frostbite, predator attack, and something related to a transport accident—either an actual accident or someone falling out of a transport vehicle and having road rash or fractures—those are common things. Improper handling, like a wing fracture, could be common too. Anyway, anytime someone has an injury, you want to contact your veterinarian. I would say even if you’re an experienced caregiverSomeone who provides daily care, specifically for animal residents at an animal sanctuary, shelter, or rescue. and you have experience dealing with some of these issues—like you’ve cared for someone with frostbite before—you should still get your veterinarian involved to make sure the correct medications are prescribed and to make sure you’re doing the right thing. Again, this is about individualized care and also so that your veterinarian can monitor how they’re doing and you’re not just bringing them to the vet four weeks later to be like, “I’ve been treating them for frostbite.” I should just add, even if they have just a small wound from a predator, like a small bite wound, those can get really nasty. You always want to get them to the vet because they usually need antibiotics for that. So: injury, vet; splay leg, vet. When in doubt, vet.
Julia Magnus: This leads us to another critical step: the question of quarantine. Can you elaborate on why quarantine is so important?
Tara Hess: Yes, this whole part has been about figuring out the specific needs of this individual, which is going to be unique. Quarantine is the thing that’s not unique. It’s universal. It’s non-negotiable for new arrivals. I’d say this is even true if you look at the turkey and you’re like, “They look healthy,” or you know exactly where they came from and you heard that they’ve been acting fine; it is just not worth the risk. Quarantining individuals—and we have a whole resource on quarantine—is going to reduce the risk of spreading an infectious disease to the rest of your residents and also to the humans who interact with this individual. Proper quarantine measures are going to protect everyone. Like I said, it’s just not worth the risk even if they look healthy because they could be harboring something that’s just not showing clinical signs and they could be infectious. We also have a whole resource on understanding infectious disease and understanding the fact that the period of being contagious doesn’t always correlate with the period of showing signs, which I think we all probably know now from COVID. We’ll make sure to drop that resource in the show notes as well. Please note that we do make an effort to list all the resources that we reference in podcast discussions in our show notes so you can refer back to them later if you want to.
Julia Magnus: Let me ask you something else about quarantine. How does it work if you’re taking in a whole group of turkeys?
Tara Hess: In general, I would say if you’re taking in a group of turkeys who have been living together previously, you can usually quarantine them together. But I want to be clear that I’m talking about a scenario where there’s a whole group of turkeys you’re agreeing to take who have been living together. I’m not talking about the fact that somebody dropped off a turkey yesterday and the shelter also called and said that they have a turkey. They both came to the sanctuary on the same day but have never met. They don’t get quarantined together. But if they’ve been living together previously, they can be quarantined together. This is because if they’ve been living together, the chances are good that anything one has been exposed to, the others have also been exposed to. But the caveat here is if one individual is looking really sick and has nasal discharge and just looks awful, I would separate them, just like I might separate them from a group if they were not new turkeys. And I would call the vet. The other thing I should say about quarantining a group of turkeys together—and this is for a group of anybody—is just because some place else decided that they could live together doesn’t mean that they should. You really want to pay attention to social dynamics because if the turkeys are stressed or picking on each other, then you should separate individuals accordingly, trying not to have anyone live alone because they’re social animals. And then also if you’re dealing with large breed turkeys and you have males and females living together, in order to prevent the issue of a male hurting a female by mounting them, you’re going to want to separate them. Having them together is going to come with the risk of the female being hurt.
Julia Magnus: That’s a lot to monitor. How do you keep a quarantined turkey who’s not in a group from becoming stressed or lonely?
Tara Hess: That’s a great question. I know for me, and I’ve heard other caregivers say, that’s the thing about quarantine: not just that logistically it can be complicated because you have to have room for it, but it sucks when you know that this individual wants to be with other individuals of their species and they can’t be. But this is really where enrichment comes in. Enrichment is important for everyone, so I don’t want to suggest that you only have to do enrichment if you have somebody living alone. But enrichment is the way you’re going to prevent boredom and give them a sense of not being alone or lonely while they’re alone. Because again, as flock animals, companionship is important. There are things you can do to sort of give them the sense that they are not alone. And we have so many resources. Again, quarantine is a short period; this is much different than suggesting that a turkey should live in isolationIn medical and health-related circumstances, isolation represents the act or policy of separating an individual with a contagious health condition from other residents in order to prevent the spread of disease. In non-medical circumstances, isolation represents the act of preventing an individual from being near their companions due to forced separation. Forcibly isolating an individual to live alone and apart from their companions can result in boredom, loneliness, anxiety, and distress. for their entire life. We’re talking about a specific period of time because it’s not worth the risk of getting other individuals sick. I would encourage folks to just search enrichment at our website, opensanctuary.org, because we have so many resources on the topic. We have a turkey-specific one, but then we also have dozens at this point of resources about different aspects of enrichment.
Julia Magnus: Once the turkeys have settled into quarantine, how do you assess their overall health?
Tara Hess: The health assessment should begin the second they arrive at your sanctuary or actually, if you’re the one who goes to pick them up, let’s say from a shelter, it really should begin the second you lay eyes on them. I’m not suggesting that the second you see them you’re like, “Okay, we have to do a full body check at this point.” But I think you know that I’m obsessed with observation. I was like “observation, observation.” The thing about observation is it’s not a thing that you’re like, “I did it, cross it off the list.” It is something that should be built into everything. Every interaction with your residents is an opportunity to assess their health and well-being. I feel like a seasoned caregiver starts always looking through that lens. So the second you see that bird, how do they look? Do they look bright? Do they have nasal discharge? Are their feathers fluffed up? Is there something weird going on with their feathers that makes you wonder what’s under there? Am I going to find a whole colony of mites? Doing that can then let you know if maybe I should pick up this bird right now and check, or that foot looks weird—I should touch their foot to see if it’s hot. That can give you information about whether I’m driving this bird to the vet right now, calling my vet, or making changes to the plans I have for them. I should also add, we’re talking about health evaluation, but this initial observation can tell you so much more than just about their health because it’s like: is this person who you thought they were going to be? I’ve had people say that they have a tomA male turkey turkey, a male, and it’s actually a female, but she had a bigger beard than someone’s used to, or the female is strutting, which they do sometimes, just like sometimes female hens crow. So, it gives you an opportunity to look and realize who they actually are or if you need to make a call back to the sanctuary to change the living space. It’s just an opportunity to gather more information about them.
Julia Magnus: When you’re looking at health issues in particular during your initial assessment, what are some common ones that you might see?
Tara Hess: I’d say common ones—and again obviously a turkey can arrive with any number of health issues, including those you’ve never dealt with before—there are definitely some issues that just tend to be more common. I think those tend to be respiratory illnesses. Super common. So you want to look for discharge from the eyes and nares, swelling of the sinuses and around the eyes, sneezing, open-mouth breathing, and labored breathing. Mobility issues are super common, especially with large breed turkeys, but I’ve also taken in heritage breed turkeys who have mobility issues. So you want to observe how they’re standing and walking. Feel their feet and hocks for heat, swelling, or any crepitus—like crunching or grating of the joint. Basically you’re looking for anything that could indicate bumble foot, joint infection, or arthritis, which are common problems. External parasites like lice and mites are common and you really want to catch those early so you have time to treat those before you discontinue quarantine. I already mentioned frostbite, but obviously in certain climates and seasons, frostbite is going to be more common. So I would look out for that.
Julia Magnus: God, I remember picking up a rescued turkey and I brought him to the vet pretty quickly after his rescue, but he was infested with lice. It was wild. When we’re talking about these assessments, as you mentioned, this isn’t one and done, right?
Tara Hess: Correct. Just like observation isn’t one and done, this ongoing assessment of the individual’s health is not. This is why quarantine is important; you could check that individual the first day and see no nasal discharge and everything looks good, but they could still have the capability of spreading something or there could be something brewing that they’re going to be spreading later on. So, you really want to continue to observe the individual. This is true for established residents, too. Continuing to observe them is important, but it’s especially crucial during this quarantine period because this is your window of trying your best to make sure you catch any issues. During this time I’d recommend that in addition to careful observation, folks have a conversation with their veterinarian to talk about what incoming testing they recommend. I’d say at the bare minimum you should do a fecal test so that you can check for internal parasites, which are also quite common. That way you and your vet can know what this turkey is carrying and in what numbers. Your veterinarian can make a recommendation about treatment. If you treat the individual because your veterinarian recommends it, typically you want to recheck the fecal 10 to 14 days later to make sure the treatment was effective. You want to see a certain percentage of reduction in the parasite. Again, this would be done in consultation with your veterinarian. Even though it’s not as big of a problem in turkeys maybe as other species, it is an ongoing issue just generally in the world where there’s this issue of drug resistance. In this case, it would be resistance to dewormers and other antiparasitic drugs. You want to catch that and figure out how to deal with that before you’re introducing them to other people.
Julia Magnus: That makes a ton of sense. So, how about vaccinations for new turkeys?
Tara Hess: For turkeys, my experience in the US—I can’t speak to other places—is that regular prophylactic vaccination for turkeys is rare. I wouldn’t say it’s unheard of, but it’s rare, especially if you’re comparing them to some of the mammalian species that folks might care for at a farmed animal sanctuaryAn animal sanctuary that primarily cares for rescued animals that were farmed by humans. who might get multiple annual vaccinations. With turkeys, it tends to be that vaccines are used more in response to disease outbreaks versus just a universal requirement like “every sheep needs a CDT vaccine.” That said, folks really should always consult with their veterinarian because we’re not vets and even if we were, we couldn’t provide guidance for everyone in every scenario. This is why it’s so important to find a veterinarian and establish a relationship with them because they can give you targeted advice based on all the specifics of your region and your individuals. I would encourage folks to have a conversation with their veterinarian to see if maybe vaccination is recommended. I would also encourage them to have a conversation about why that decision should be made—what the benefits and risks are—so that you can make an informed decision. In some cases vaccinating for certain diseases can have implications later on if you have to test for that disease and you’re using a test that can’t differentiate between an actual infection and vaccination. So yeah, that’s what I would say about vaccines. Call your vet. Your vet is like your most popular person on your phone.
Julia Magnus: Yeah, I think that my vet is actually the most contacted person on my phone.
Tara Hess: They’re usually the only phone numbers I have memorized anymore. I talk to you all the time and I don’t even know your phone number. If I was at a pay phone somehow, I couldn’t call you, but I could call Cornell’s large animal vet.
Julia Magnus: So, okay, now we’ve got our turkey who’s passed quarantine and they’ve received the all-clear. They’re ready to join the flock. But before the turkeys can even arrive, sanctuaries need to have appropriate living spaces ready. So, what are the key elements of creating a good home for turkeys?
Tara Hess: That’s a huge part of being prepared, especially if you’re taking in new turkeys for the first time or if you’re going to take in turkeys who can’t live with the turkeys you maybe already care for. Turkeys thrive with lots of space to roam and explore and they need indoor spaces that protect them from the elements. Predator proofing is paramount because turkeys, as well as the typical farmed bird species that are smaller, are all really vulnerable to predation. In terms of how much space they need, I know I said they need a lot of space, but I wish I had a magic number to offer people. I would be much more comfortable if I had specific recommendations or guidelines, but there’s just not a magic number because there are so many factors to consider: their age, breed, sex, any health issues, general activity level, flock dynamics, climate, and the type of outdoor space. All those things need to be considered when you’re figuring out how much space your residents need.
In our “Creating a Good Home” resource, we do offer some recommendations from farmed animal sanctuaries and animal organizations, but they’re really meant to be seen as minimums. We encourage folks to provide more than the minimum. Also, be prepared if what you offer is not enough. You might see that because individuals are pecking at each other, fighting, or not getting along; you’ll need to make some changes. They might need more space or maybe you need to break up different groups. But yeah, there’s not a magic number there. Typically more is better.
Julia Magnus: You mentioned predator proofing as well. I don’t think we need to get at long length about that because we do actually have a full resource on predator proofing for avian species at your animal sanctuary and we’ve also done an entire podcast on this subject. But it’s probably worth mentioning that it’s really paramount that turkeys need to be closed into a completely predator-proof space from dusk till dawn. I also do think it’s probably worth talking about, since we’ve mentioned that turkeys have foot and leg issues at times, that flooring and bedding can be pretty important. So what does that look like in their living spaces, Tara?
Tara Hess: Traction is critical, especially for large breed turkeys given their large size and their predisposition to foot and joint issues, but it’s also important for heritage breed turkeys. When you’re thinking about flooring options and what bedding to use with it, you really need to consider how those work together and the traction they provide together because you can’t just look at them separately. Particularly for large breed turkeys or any turkeys with foot or joint issues, you also need to think about the impact the flooring will have on their joints and the rest of their body. How hard is the floor? Is it going to put a lot of strain on their body to walk on it or jump down from something onto it? And as if that’s not enough to consider, you also have to consider predator proofing.
If you think about traction and avoiding flooring that’s going to be too hard, a dirt floor might come to mind. That can be really nice and not as hard as some other options. It provides pretty good traction, but that’s not going to give you any predator proofing against digging predators unless you do some sort of modification to it. On the other hand, concrete is great in terms of predator proofing and, if it’s slightly textured, it can provide traction with the right bedding. But it’s a really hard surface to walk and lie down on. I wouldn’t recommend a bare concrete floor for large breed turkeys because I think it’s too hard for them. Both would require some sort of modification to make them tick all those boxes. For example, a concrete floor can be great from a predator proofing perspective, and then you can add textured rubber stall mats or floor mats, even those puzzle-piece mats that are for kids’ play areas. You can add those to the top and then that will give you the cushion and traction, but you still have that impenetrable flooring option in terms of predator proofing.
Adding bedding helps keep residents comfortable and there are various options out there. As with flooring, you just really have to consider the pros and cons of each and figure out what’s going to work best for you. The main things are that you want to avoid bedding that could cause injury or respiratory irritation, as well as those made from potentially toxic materials or anything that could contain harmful pathogens. For example, you definitely want to steer clear of cedar wood shavings because those can cause respiratory issues, and you want to avoid bedding that’s super dusty. If you’re opting for a non-cedar wood shaving like pine—though I know pine can sometimes be controversial—you want to do the low-dust, dust-extracted kind because otherwise it’s just not good for them to breathe in.
Julia Magnus: That’s really helpful and thanks for bringing up those specific examples because I think that can be really impactful for caregivers. In our previous episode we talked about turkey ancestry and the instincts that come from their ancestors. So how do we accommodate the natural behaviors they want to engage in, like perching and nesting?
Tara Hess: Turkeys instinctively want to perch up off the ground to sleep because that’s what their wild cousins do to protect themselves from predators. But a mature large breed turkey can’t typically use those rod-style perches. They also might not be able to balance on the narrow board-style perches either, but they still want to be up off the ground a little bit. It’s about balance. It’s about recognizing the fact that they want to do this and finding a way to do it safely for them and in a way that is accessible to them. I know some folks won’t use straw at all because of the risk of aspergillosis, but in certain climates and with other preventative measures, I’ve talked to caregivers who use it and have discussed it with their vet without having an issue. If you are someone who has found that it’s okay to use straw, an intact straw bale or some sort of sturdy tiered structure of straw bales can be a good way to provide an elevated space, but again, you really want to make sure it’s sturdy.
If you don’t want to use straw bales, I guess just sort of picture that size of thing—the ones that have the two twine, not the massive five-twine ones. That’s a good size for a tiered structure. You could build something; you just want to make sure it’s sturdy. I’ve also seen some caregivers try to do a two-in-one nest box and perch area where maybe they make a wooden box or use a carrier with a lot of bedding in it so the turkey can go in the carrier to nest. That’s a nice private spot and then they can hop on top to perch if it’s not too high. If it’s a wire carrier, you want to have a solid top on it so their feet aren’t going through the wire top. If it’s a plastic carrier, I would put something up there so they’re not going to slip, like those bath mats that have the rubber backing. Actively laying hens are going to want a private area to nest, especially during the season when they’re really broodyTerm used to describe a hen demonstrating behavioral tendencies associated with sitting on, incubating, and protecting a clutch of eggs, but a hen can be broody even if her eggs are removed.. Those chicken nest boxes often won’t fit large breed turkeys, but sometimes they’ll try to get in them and end up knocking the bottom out, which could cause injuries. I would create something that is safe for them and is on the ground for them to nest in. Just really honor the fact that they need those things and find a way to do it safely while understanding the challenges associated with their bodies.
Julia Magnus: That makes a ton of sense. We touched a little bit on this when we were talking about frostbite and some other issues, but climate control for turkeys is a big factor as well, right?
Tara Hess: It’s huge. In the summer, turkeys, especially large breed turkeys, are vulnerable to heat-related illness if the weather’s hot and particularly if it’s humid. As humidity rises, the temperature at which they’re at risk of heat-related issues drops. It doesn’t have to be 90 degrees; it could be cooler but humid and still put them at risk. It’s important to provide them with an indoor living space that can give them some relief from the heat and the sun. What works is going to depend on where you are. For some folks, you might just need to open windows and get a cool breeze. Again, make sure it’s still predator-proof, but you might need to use a combination of exhaust fans and circulating fans or even other cooling systems. In the winter, turkeys need protection from the cold. How cold is too cold? There’s not a magic number because I’ve cared for turkeys in California where they were cold at 40 degrees because that was cold there, and the turkeys in upstate New York would have been like, “Woo, it’s 40!” But in terms of the risk of frostbite, that’s a real thing for all turkeys and geeseUnless explicitly mentioned, we are referring to domesticated goose breeds, not wild geese, who may have unique needs not covered by this resource. once temperatures drop below freezing.
In some cases, you may need to use a heat source, but you have to be really careful about two things. One is making sure the space doesn’t become too humid; if you’re trying to keep the space warm, you’re going to start closing it up more, but then it can get really humid. You need to find a way to have ventilation without creating drafts that the turkeys can’t get out of, and you might have to add a heat source. I just want to encourage folks to check out our resource, “Basic Electrical Safety for Farmed Animal Sanctuaries,” because I feel strongly that electricity is important in many scenarios in living spaces because certain things are challenging without it. But as soon as you introduce electricity, there’s going to be risk. You have to do it right. We worked with an expert, Michael Cizer, on that resource, and it gives a lot of tips about how to do it safely because fire risk is a scary, real thing.
Julia Magnus: So, finally, with turkeys, what about their outdoor living spaces? How should that look for them?
Tara Hess: The outdoor space is really where turkeys can truly exhibit natural behaviors like exploring, dust bathing, lying in the sun, and foraging. Again, predator proofing is key. I’ll say it again, and this is true for chickens too—lots of farmed species are put in pastures, but why? Because we put them there. This is where you go back and think of how their wild cousins prefer a mix of woods and open spaces. Sanctuaries should try to incorporate native grasses, trees, and bushes, and add elements like logs and tree stumps to create a dynamic habitat. People can check out our animal-centered design resource for more guidance. I also mentioned dust bathing. Make sure they have a spot where they can dust bathe, which might be something where they can scratch the dirt themselves if there’s a spot that’s not grassy. Sometimes you want to provide an actual box area—maybe even covered so it doesn’t get wet—of loose dirt or topsoil. Never anything with fertilizer, but you want them to be able to dust bathe because that can help keep their feathers healthy and prevent external parasites.
Julia Magnus: And it’s also one of the most joyful things to observe.
Tara Hess: It is. But I’ll tell you, the first time I saw a large breed turkey dust bathing, I thought she was having a heart attack or something. But yes, they’re so happy. It was just startling the first time.
Julia Magnus: Well, I’m glad that we are able to end on a joyful note thinking of these happy turkeys dust bathing. And thank you so much for giving such a great overview of welcoming new turkeys to a sanctuary. I’m really hopeful that listeners were able to learn a little bit more about the fascinating history of turkeys, breed-specific needs, critical intake protocols, and creating safe and enriching spaces. You’ve covered so much. So, thank you, Tara Hess. It’s so clear that providing compassionate care for turkeys requires a deep understanding and a lot of prep. I want to note that the arrival guide has more tips and wisdom when it comes to our turkey friends. If you want to learn more, please check out the show notes where we’ve dropped that resource as well as additional ones you might find helpful. If there are more subjects we can cover for you, please feel free to contact us via our contact page at opensanctuary.org. We’re always happy to hear feedback and welcome suggestions for new resources. If you found this information helpful, please consider leaving a five-star review. And if you like what we do, we warmly welcome donations. As we are a 501(c)(3) organization, your donations are tax-deductible and help us sustain our mission of providing freely accessible resources so that every sanctuary and rescue can be a success story. Thanks for listening, for your support, and we look forward to talking to you next time.
